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“There is a part in one’s spiritual journey where you decide that you are the one who is going to grow up. You’re interacting with all these people, you’re looking around, you’re seeing just a ton of people who refuse to grow up and are still acting out all of their childhood stuff. Then a light switch goes on for you, and you’re like: ‘Oh. I’m going to decide to be that person. I’m going to be the one. Even though it’s not fair, even though I shouldn’t have to, this is what I’m choosing now.’” – Jeffrey Marsh


We all want to see ourselves as good people, but everybody has the capacity to hurt others when we don’t understand them. 

Today I’m chatting with nonbinary author, actor, and activist Jeffrey Marsh about how you can celebrate those with diverse identities even before you know all the rules, how to be an ally without being perfect, and some practical tips for being comfortable with they/them pronouns (you probably already are!). Plus, Jeffrey tells me about their biggest childhood inspirations and their book, “How to Be You.”


  • 05:56 Pointing your heart toward love and inclusion
  • 06:58 Jeffrey’s book “How to be you,” and how they became the first nonbinary person to work with a “big five” publisher
  • 10:32 Accepting imperfection in yourself as an ally
  • 12:26 What is an ally?
  • 16:32 How to celebrate diversity even before you “get” it
  • 20:04 How Jeffrey decided to keep speaking out despite hate
  • 22:26 Jeffrey’s childhood
  • 26:32 Growing up when those around you won’t
  • 27:24 The people who inspired Jeffrey most
  • 30:28 Inclusivity 101
  • 31:12 What does it mean to be nonbinary?
  • 32:42 What are the differences between the identities genderqueer and genderfluid?
  • 37:12 Being comfortable with they/them pronouns (you already are!)
  • 41:52 Jeffrey’s greatest boundary struggle

Connect with Jeffrey Marsh:

Jeffrey Marsh’s spiritual and inclusive messages have received over 1 billion views on social media. Jeffrey is a viral TikTok and Instagram star. Jeffrey is the first openly nonbinary public figure to be interviewed on national television, for Unfiltered. Jeffrey was also the first nonbinary author to be offered a book deal with any “Big 5” publisher, at Penguin Random House. Jeffrey’s bestselling Buddhist self-esteem guide How To Be You, is an innovative, category-non-conforming work that combines memoir, workbook, and spiritual advice. How To Be You topped Oprah’s Gratitude Meter and was named Excellent Book of the Year by TED-Ed. In 2019, How To Be You was re-issued as a Barnes & Noble Proprietary Edition. Jeffrey has been a student and teacher of Zen for over twenty years

You can find information about Jeffrey’s book, now available in audiobook form, here. You can also connect with them on Instagram and Twitter or email them at

Here are some ways we can connect and grow together:

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